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Consumer groups welcome car price lawsuit

JOHN PARTRIDGE AND GREG KEENAN

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 11:02 AM EST 26/09/07

Class action against major auto makers, dealers alleges plot to charge more in Canada than U.S. ...Read the full article

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  1. Laura Findlay from Canada writes: Now if only someone would do something about the ridiculous price difference in books.
  2. Not That Martin from Canada writes: I hear you Laura! And maybe we'll see parity on greeting cards! I need to call my lawyer.
  3. N. Reader from Canada writes: if you look at the new 2008 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V6 for example here's how ridiculous the differential is, prices are from Honda's official USA and Canada websites

    USA = base price $28,310 $635 dest/handling = $28,945

    Canada = base price $35,490 $1360 = $36,850

    a whopping differential of $7905 or 27.3% higher in Canada, I expect to see a massive amount of these cars crossing the border into Canada including mine if I buy one.....
  4. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: It didn't take long for the lawyers to take this one for a test ride.
  5. Steve *** from United States writes: Well, after reading the article about Canadians heading south to buy cars, I checked some cars on Auto Trader website to see the price difference. It was shocking to see a 2006 Porsche Cayenne turbo in Texas is $127,000 with 10 miles on it while the very same car with higher mileage in Toronto goes for over $190,000. so if you sell one car in Ontario, you are pretty much done for the whole year.
  6. mark borneo from Canada writes: Anybody notice the LCBO has not dropped the price of Califonia wine.The dollar has dropped 50% in the last few years and the wine has never been discounted.
  7. John Arthur from Canada writes: This should ensure some overtime for the legal departments on both sides until the 2015 models arrive.

    Lawyers.....
  8. Steve *** from United States writes: I just had an idea. Maybe automakers think that since the Canadian population is one tenth of US (31 million vs. 300 million) they can maintain their profit by raising the price.
  9. Marshal Cheung from Canada writes: Almost everything in Canada is much more expensive than in the US. It is a fact of the life. 50-inch Panasonic Plasma sells 1500 in US and 2500 here. Same model. Every Canadian business is doing its best to gauge customers. A couple weeks I got quotes on an office equipment, US quote: 1699 with shipping included. CND quote: 2999 plus tax plus 399 shipping even they are locate only 20 miles away. So if you can relocate your business to US you save a hell lot!
  10. William Koehler from Canada writes: N.READER Add all the taxes to your figures and you will get a greater difference. I/E US (add 6%) = $30681.79. CDN AC tax, gas tax plus 14% (Ont) = $42208.50. A difference of $11526.80. No small amount.
  11. Pliny the Elder from Canada writes: Can someone explain the tax angle? Do you have to pay U.S. state taxes AND pst and gst? And if it's not a U.S. or Mexican car (e.g. Volvo), is there a tariff too?
  12. chris jenkins from Free the West, Canada writes: I see everybody is clueing on to the amount we Canadians are being gouged, by fellow Canadians. It makes all these 'buy Canadian to be patriotic' campaigns look pretty foolish. My Dad has being saying for over a year that we should all be paying less for things with our higher dollar, but it just hasn't been happening.
  13. John Silverman from Canada writes: It's good to see the effects of the dollar are finally trickling in. Apparently book prices and other goods will have their prices dropped soon too, which is great.

    Let's hope it doesn't take too long for this to come into effect.
  14. Paul Armstrong from Toronto, writes: I love it - price cuts for a segment of the market/customers that don't need them...
  15. X. T. from Waterloo, Canada writes: Good grief. Just vote with your wallet!

    I have a few friends went car buying trips down the south in Maryland. That was when loonie was at mid-80s. Each of them saved close to 10,000 on a Sienna LE.
  16. Bryan Kim from Canada writes: RE:Pliny the Elder

    6.1% duty
    As for the state tax, it varies.
    You pay GST at the border, and PST when you register your auto with MTO.
  17. Pliny the Elder from Canada writes: Thanks Bryan. So if you're paying duty (on a European car for example), and you have to pay a state tax on top of our taxes, these savings may not be so good it appears.
  18. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: Pliny the Elder from Canada writes, Can someone explain the tax angle?

    If the car is made in N.A. then there is no duty because of NAFTA. If the car doesn't qualify, then the duty is 6.1% of the price you paid converted in CAN$. You pay GST at the border on the price you paid. Thus a savings here too. You pay the provincial tax at your license bureau when you license the car in your province. Again another savings. Check out RIV.ca. I bought A Honda CRV in New York State. No State tax since you are not a resident. I had to pay for a New york state temporary license to drive the car back to Canada ($10).

    The procedure is really easy. Don't listen to Canadian dealers who say it's really difficult.
  19. No No No Yes No from Canada writes: Paul, Did you have to get your bumper changed? I heard all CDN cars have a higher impact bumper and you were required to change it...Any truth?
  20. L F from Canada writes: This applies to many things including footwear and reading material. They better get on it or they may find more lawsuits coming their way.
  21. Duane Freemantle from writes: This is a frivolous lawsuit. The cost of many products sold in both Canada and US are more expensive in Canada. There are several reasons for this. What a was of our court resources.
  22. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: No No No Yes No from Canada writes: Paul, Did you have to get your bumper changed?

    No, most new cars are all standardised. My CRV even had daytime running lights and child seat anchors which are the 2 main items. I had nothing do to it.
  23. Pliny the Elder from Canada writes: Thanks Paul. I didn't know you don't have to pay state taxes if you are not a resident.
  24. Timber 'n from Somewhere, Canada writes: The reality is that when the market is segregated the consumer loses in the end. Larger markets, more selection, greater competition = lower prices, consumers win. Canadians pay more for allot of things, not just cars. Cars are big and obvious, but its the millions of little items like books, video games, shoes, etc where you eat 2-20 dollars each time.
    Try to buy a $10 item off ebay.com and you'll feel the pain of that barrier to competition at the border. Your $10 item will quickly roll up toward $50 before your done, ...so Canadian stores don't have to compete and you pay more. The US is the biggest marketplace in the world, we are a major trading partner and live right next door yet we aren't taking full advantage of this incredible marketplace, thats foolish.
  25. Catherine from Toronto from Canada writes: Paul, Bytown

    What about the odometre and spedometre into metric? And ommissions checks? Would these not be costly to change?
  26. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Duane Freemantle, you think costs are 30-40% higher in Canada? So we have lower corporate income taxes, lower wages, WAY lower payroll taxes, lower costs for hydro and heating, but higher costs for land, and the net result is the end product should cost 30% more? No sir, this lawsuit is not frivolous. And X. T., this lawsuit is not about reducing prices, it is about forcing the companies to keep their warranties in Canada on imported vehicles, some do, some don't. You can't vote with your wallet if they deny you the warranty they supply Americans with.
  27. phil lewis from Canada writes: Lazy canadians survived by keeping dollar low atracted american tourists and so on arent the americans terrible people less taxes etc.maybe our universal ineficient healthcare isnt so cheap after all .waitresses in america always treat me better maybe its their better everything .
  28. X. T. from Waterloo, Canada writes: Catherine from Toronto:
    Things like Odometers are very cheap to change. In fact, if you buy a Japanese brand they have to make that change for the US only, because there are only 3 or 4 countries on 'imperial system' nowadays.
  29. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: Catherine from Toronto from Canada writes: Paul, Bytown

    What about the odometer and speedometer into metric?

    You don't change them. The speedometer gives you both readings just like here in Canada. The difference is that the big numbers are in miles and the smaller ones are in KM. RIV sends you a sticker that you affix to the dash that informs someone of this. Emissions aren't a problem.
  30. X. T. from Waterloo, Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto:
    Yes, the warranty service is a problem on some brands. This is I said 'Sienna' not 'Odyssey'. Toyota provides NA warranty on their cars. Honda only provides US or Canada warranties, to my knowledge.
  31. Timber 'n from Somewhere, Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: ... we have lower corporate income taxes....

    FYI: While that is technically true...everyone knows the US corporate tax has loop holes so big it makes US corporate tax far less. That is a talking point everyone likes to use but completely ignores reality.
  32. Kevin G from Cochrane, AB, Canada writes: For once, I'm all for a class action law suit. The fraud being perpetrated throughout the Canadian economy is obscene.

    TVs are a good example:

    MSRP for a Toshiba TC-32LX700:
    U.S. = $1099.95
    Canada = $1,399.99

    There is no reasonable explanation for a 27% difference for the exact same product in the exact same box.

    Individual retail outlets also seem to be in on this conspiracy. The average retail price is exactly the same as the Toshiba MSRP in Canada but in the U.S. it only takes a 2 second Google search to find this same TV at a multitude of stores for at least $200 less than the MSRP.

    The real comparison is more like $1399 CDN vs $899 US which is a 55% difference.

    When gasoline prices jump up by 5% there is an outcry about price fixing and price collusion but the price fixing in most other areas of our economy are allowed to continue, unchecked. Why?
  33. Barney Panofsky from Vancouver, Canada writes: When the hidden manufacturing tax was dropped and the new GST was introduced, it was the same. We were promised by the government of the day that consumers would not be dinged. Guess what happened.

    The manufacturers and retailers will only make token price drops. It won't be equitable.

    It's that simple.
  34. George Polak from Kingston, Canada writes: It's ridiculous that a Honda made in Alliston is cheaper to buy in Texas than Ontario. And it should be criminal that Honda will void your warranty if you buy in the US. Looks like free trade only applies when it benefits the corporations.
  35. Beech Nut from Deepest Quebec, Canada writes: I'm willing to bet that you won't see a signficant reduction in car prices until sales tank significantly.

    Since the Canadian economy is buyoant, and people tend to shop when they have money, I doubt that sales will drop significantly, and therefore the market will rule and prices will stay strong. Most people won't bother with the hassles of going to the US for a car.

    Prices did not go up much when the Canadian dollar was low because the economy wasn't as strong and consumers didn't have as much cash to throw around, so the automakers did not raise prices enough to reflect the low value of the dollar, out of fear of reduced sales.

    Car values shouldn't be tied to the value of the currency, but rather, to market conditions. The most efficient markets are those that are free of artificially imposed restraints.
  36. Doug Consul from Osoyoos, BC, writes: Recently, I required some electrical house wiring, price locally was $1.50 per foot, while 20 minutes away in the US, it was $1.00....while in the States, I priced LCD TV sets, US price $780, CDN price $1200.....
  37. I Sutherland from Canada writes: Maybe Flaherty can explain why Canadians pay our New Government $80CDN for a Nexus Border Pass while Americans pay on $50 US? If our Government can't lead by exanple then what do we expect from Industry. I questioned Stockwell Day and received a response last May claiming he was looking into it. Nothing has changed. Surely this can't be a big issue to look at fixing and it would clearky show that our government considers the pricing imbalances caused by our higher dollar value to be a real issue.
  38. Ben B from Ontario, Canada writes: I know a lot of you are down on lawyers and lawsuits but they're both really important to all of us getting treated fairly. Class actions and the threat of them are what keeps government and big business honest (well, more honest at least). Without class actions, big consumer goods manufacturers, for example, can make billions of extra dollars by illegally gouging each of their thousands of customers for just a few dollars.

    No one consumer is going to launch a lawsuit for being hornswoggled for $20 - the legal fees will run into the thousands. But a mass of consumers in league have the power to fight back. The only problem is that you can't get a league of consumers to chip in to pay for it! So the law firm on the case has to fund it entirely. This usually runs into the millions of dollars. For taking on such a huge risk of losing their shirts, law firms are given a big upside risk to match it: a big contingency of the winnings.

    It's not perfect, but it does work.
  39. Oliver Dueck from Fredericton, Canada writes: What a ridiculous lawsuit. And what will happen if the Canadian dollars weakens and/or the American dollar strengthens and the loonie is worth 70 cents again? All car prices will quickly rise, and we'll have to deal with this complaining all over again.

    The psychological effect that parity has on us is very interesting. Prices were completely out of wack even with a 90-cent dollar, but not a lot of attention was paid to this issue. Sure, it has gotten worse, but why didn't we start complaining last year?

    Rather than filing lawsuits, we should just all be savvy consumers and buy products from the U.S. where possible. This will have short-term impact on our local economies, but thanks to the free market, things will work themselves out once Canadian prices are adjusted.
  40. Hugh Draper from Canada writes: Lawyers and idiot consumers wasting valuable legal time.
  41. Oliver Dueck from Fredericton, Canada writes: The warranty argument is a bit ridiculous too. If you are saving $10k by buying south of the border, what's a few hundred (or even a couple grand) in repair work? You're still coming out ahead.
  42. So this is why it's called Onterrible from Calgary, Canada writes: I am surprised people are only now catching on to the price difference now. I bought a brand new BMW 330Ci in 2005 when the dollar was around .85$ and I STILL saved major money. Went down with intention of buying a Z4 with 5k miles on it. 33k usd vs. 49k Cdn for a similar car. Are you kidding? the whole 6 hours it took to drive, 200$ for a trailer, gas and hotel EASILY was absorbed. is 2 days of your time worth $15k? Only catch is I knew what I was buying so I was able to have the title sent up to satisfy US Customs 72 hour before export law. (title has to be in their hands >72 hours before the vehicle leaves the usa). BMW honors the warranties Toyota does too as does Lexus but finding a Lexus dealer that will sell to you as you are considered out of state is a different matter. For us in NB its either drive to Portland or drive to Halifax, I NEVER go to Halifax nor do I want to and am in Maine twice a month so that was good enough for the dealer there as we don't have a dealer in NB. Getting service is a non issue for BMW in Canada even if it was bought in the USA. DO NOT believe what some dealers tell you. BMW, Benz, Ferrari, and Porsche make ONE car for NA. Mine even has Calfifornia emissions. The bumpers are all the same it is rare that a car will not be admissible to Canada although there are a few of the Audi's from way back that arent also the odd M3 I believe. I have heard a lot of BS from dealers about this issue. oh its not the same car, we have better bumpers here in Canada (bunk! they are the SAME). As far as odomoter it really is NOT an issue. The km/h is smaller but for 12k in savings I can deal with it. also odo is in miles but really who cares? can you multiply by 1.6? Most cars it's electronic so the dealer CAN change it if you really want.
  43. Barney Panofsky from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'm planning to buy a used car in California in Nov. Probably a late model, depending on price. Best value may be a GM, CHRYSLER or FORD. I'll be driving it back to British Columbia.

    Can someone tell me the problems I'll need to deal with?

    I'd really appreciate any advise.
  44. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: While there are factors for prices being slightly higher in Canada (higher minimum wages, 99.999% legal work force, etc.) like in high tax, high cost of living blue states (e.g., compare Chicago prices to Minnesota), that should settle down to a range of 10% to 15%. While the US$ has dropped faster, globally, than anybody could have foreseen, some apparent price trajectory should be seen.

    The flip side is that in the US, prices are not rising as fast as sellers would like. And even then, most folks are reporting higher personal inflation outside the CPI 'basket of goods' official rate (e.g., health premiums up 6.2%, university tuition up 10%). Despite an overall consumer price advantage, property values and property taxes based on those assessments at bubble prices have pushed Americans into a negative savings rate on average.
  45. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: . The lawsuit alleges automakers and dealers conspired to fix Canadian car prices 25-percent to 35-percent higher than U.S. prices, violating competition and consumer protection laws. The automakers will argue the higher prices are coincidental and driven by market forces, the same bull$hit the domestic oil cartel has slid past toothless government watchdogs for years. Cutthroat competition drives prices up! .
  46. Nameless in Scarborough from Canada writes: Go for it!!! Sue the pants off these corporations!!!
  47. Barry Johnstone from Canada writes: Paul I notice that you bought a CRV. I have one and love the car so would like to buy a new one, However Honda Canada says they won't cover the warranty if you buy in the States. Do you go back over the border for warranty service?
  48. Razzle Dazzle from q'beach, Canada writes: 'Lawsuit is expected to be defended vigourosly' . Like any crook, Black, O.J. they will never admit guilt or colusion but will go to the ends of the earth to defend their innocence. This lawsuit hasn't got a hope in.....
  49. Rain SCM from Canada writes: Marshal Cheung, I don't know where you are shopping, but Best Buy has reduced its costs on 32' flat screen TVs to match the US cost this week. 50', are you planning to open a Silver City?
  50. dom perignon from ottawa, Canada writes: Want to see real US price?

    go to price comparison site like

    www.pricegrabber.com

    just type in what you're looking for.

    For example, New balance 902 running shoes sell in Canada for 169.99, and as low as 89.99 in USA
  51. aloysuis paczjoskteyochuk from Canada writes: Oregon has no state tax, sticker price is what you pay, nice.
  52. Chris Megaffin from Halifax, Canada writes: I have been in the automobile retail business for over 25 years. The dealers in Canada are not reaping any of the windfalls due to the rise of the Canadian Dollar. Having the manufacturers drop the prices seems easy but it will set off a chain reaction that will affect most car owners and buyers in Canada. If new car prices drop overnight, the value of everyone’s current vehicle will plummet by the same amount (or more). If you have a loan of $30,000 on a 2 year old vehicle, the value of your vehicle could drop by $3,000 to $5,000 immediately leaving you with significant negative equity. The residuals on leases could drop precipitously, making the lease payments on a new vehicle higher than they are now. Also, in Canada, the manufactures are adding content to the vehicles without increasing the prices and are providing very low interest rates and rebates not found in the U.S. Unless you have the cash to buy the vehicle, the price in the U.S. is not as attractive as it looks. High end vehicles like Porches, etc. do have a large exchange discrepancy, but the everyday vehicles are not as far off as they look. Canadian car buyers were paying significantly lower prices (compared to the U.S.) 5 to 10 years ago, when the Canadian Dollar was significantly lower than it is today. In fact Americans were coming across the borders to buy here. I don’t remember class action suits being filed because our prices were lower. The auto manufactures may need to lower prices slowly over the next few years once the Canadian dollar finds its equilibrium. Until then, you better be careful of what you wish for.
  53. So this is why it's called Onterrible from Calgary, Canada writes: On another note...but still related.. Living close to the US border we have all known this for years (about car prices. Well, anyone in the know anyway) New Brunswickers have been flying out of Bangor for years to escape the $$ clutches of Air Canada. IF you had time to drive the 3 hours, you went. flying a family of 4 to disney land it usually meant a savings of over $1k Getting 2 daily flights from Boston to Fredericton a few years ago was a gosh send. The only thing people SHOULD watch out for is damaged cars. YOU MUST know what you are buying. Let me say it again, KNOW what you are buying. The odds of getting a flood car from a real dealer are next to nil. I have had dealers say oh you will get a flood car or a wrecked one buying in the states. Also BS. FLY DOWN and look at the car unless it is a bonafied BMW or Honda Dealer or other reputable dealer (Honda will not honour your warranty unless you can prove you were transferred etc... to Canada) But even still...trust no one. Car fax is NOT foolproof. If in doubt spend the 200$ and have an independant mechanic look at the car. And yes all this is WORTH IT. You DO NOT pay state tax, though you will have to trailer a MA car if you take it north. MA does not issue temp transfer plates..something to be aware of. Drive without a plate at your own risk and DONT think of putting your old Canadian plate on unless you would like to be held for a week in a US Jail should you be nabbed. I agree car prices should be set by the market, and they have been, we have been too dumb and paying the high prices the manufacturers have set. There is somet truth in that the market here is smaller so costs are higher but not THAT high. And as far as duty goes, if it is made outside of NA (the Z4 and X5 are not! they are made in Carolina) then you pay the 6.something percent, big deal. It's built into the Canadian price anyway if you bought it in Canada so its a null point.
  54. Confucious Smith from Canada writes: 'Auto industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers warned that Canadian car buyers should be careful ...'

    DesRosiers is a industry hack whose bread is buttered by the car manufacturers. God only knows what they pay him for. There is more credible 'analysis' coming directly from the manufacturers themselves.
  55. aloysuis paczjoskteyochuk from Canada writes: My post should of read no additional sales tax at point of sales, Oregon does have state taxes.
  56. Rain SCM from Canada writes: A shame VW and Audi are not named as defendants, although one can buy a Rabbit in Canada and the US for virtually the same cost, taking duty and emission testing/upgrading into consideration. Shame on Honda and Toyota.
  57. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: aloysuis paczjoskteyochuk writes, 'Oregon has no state tax, sticker price is what you pay, nice.' No state sales tax, prices a bit higher than surrounding states with sales tax. A profitable but small market (only one Whole Foods until this past spring).
  58. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: Barry Johnstone from Canada writes:Do you go back over the border for warranty service?

    First of all I bought a Honda for it's reliability. Thus I'm hoping I will never have an issue. But if I should, then I could drive over in 2 hours and get the work done. I saved over $8000, even with the fact that I'm paying 8% over 3 yrs on the loan with my bank versus the 0.9% Honda Canada is offering. So for that amount of savings, I can afford the day off work if need be to go get my car fixed for warranty coverage. Or, for that amount of savings, I can afford to pay to get the work done here.

    Also, the sales rep in N.Y. said that Honda is under a lot of pressure right now and chances are they will change their mind shortly and honor the warranty.

    Either way, I come out a winner.
  59. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: George Polak, forget about the Alliston car in southern Ontario, go buy the Alliston, Ontario made car in Alliston, Ontario, and you'll still pay 40% more than buying that car in Texas. Oh, and lets not forget you will pay 1400CAD for shipping from Allison, Ontario to Alliston, Ontario, or you could pay 400USD for shipping from Allison, Ontario, to Anchorage, Alaska. Normally I'd say just let the market sort it out, but with the warranty situation that really can't be done. The government and lawsuits won't be able to make the companies cave on their pricing practices, but if they can make them cave on warranties, then we're all set, just go south and buy.
  60. Northern Dancer from pickering, Canada writes: I'm shuffling off to Buffalo for my next car.
  61. So this is why it's called Onterrible from Calgary, Canada writes: Yes that is a very valid point about the used car prices. IF they lower the prices to the US level the used car market will be litterally destroyed.

    Hopefully people in Toronto and Vancouver along with Calgary will keep paying the prices, keeping the MSRP's where they are so I can keep buying my cars down south and having a market to sell when I am done with them.

    With enough US cars around even if I take a small cut over what it would sell for because it is a US car big frickin deal.

    Personally, I like the status quo..most people are too lazy or don't have the time to do this anyway, or care to and that is fine.

    Also it is true about content with the domestic autos. The price differential just isnt there. But it sure is in the Porshce, BMW, Ferrari and Benz lines...man is it ever. I hope they keep the prices here high!
  62. b mac from Canada writes: Only a legal beagle could be so stupid. When the Canadian dollar was 67 cents auto makers were charging less in Canada, then in the USA, for their cars. It's called market pricing and has been around for years. The price of cars, in Canada, will fall over time if the Canadian buck stays stong. Rome wasn't built in a day.
  63. X. T. from Waterloo, Canada writes: Northern Dancer from pickering, Canada writes: I'm shuffling off to Buffalo for my next car.
    -----------------------
    Some car manufacturers, at least Toyota, do not allow American dealerships close to border sell to Canadians. You have to go further south. This is why my friends bought from Maryland - I heard you need to drive at least 8 hours south to have a dealership that can sell you a Toyota.
  64. Rick Czarnota from Calgary, writes: Paul Armstrong from Toronto, writes: I love it - price cuts for a segment of the market/customers that don't need them...

    Actually Paul this issue has nothing to do with any segment of the market/customers. There is a price discrepancy between two markets when there shouldn't be one...period. It has nothing to do with rich or poor Canadians; simply Canadians getting gouged.

    Remember your poverty march starts at 11AM. Give lots of your own money to support your cause.
  65. X. T. from Waterloo, Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto:
    If you buy a Corolla/Matrix/Lexus CS300 at Cambridge Toyota, you have to pay at least 1000 for the shipping from the factory that is located 2 KM away from the dealership.
  66. W M from Canada writes: I don't object to some variation in prices and I don't expect manufacturers to immediately adjust prices to fully account for rapid currency fluctuation; but I do expect them to adjust them to cover that part of the fluctuation that can be expected to persist. For example, the Canadian dollar may fall back somewhat from parity, but it is highly unlikely that it is going to drop below the low 90s any time soon. Therefore, discrepancies ought to be in the 10% or less range. However, they are sometimes far higher. For example, the last time I checked, a few months ago, New Balance was still pricing its shoes in Canada up to 50% higher than their selling price in the US. This is not only bad for Canadian consumers, but bad for the people who work in Canadian stores. Personally, I think it shows no loyalty to fellow citizens and little foresight to drive all the way to the US to save a few percent. And, as for products made by manufacturers that are truly trying to hose Canadians by maintaining much larger pricing differences, rather than buying their products in the US, Canadian consumers ought to refuse to buy them anywhere. Going to the US to buy them simply encourages them to keep prices high in Canada, because they have nothing to lose, if Canadians who are unhappy simply buy their products in the US?
  67. D M from Canada writes: Barney Panofsky from Vancouver: You are right on. Removing a tax of 14% and replacing it with 7% GST should have been a noticeable drop. If memory serves me right, the cars had a 3% increase that year. Once again, we get shafted. No one should buy a car in Canada from any manufacturer that tells its US dealers not to sell to Canadians. It would work but people will buy anyway, so we will continue to get ripped off.
    Take a look at cellphone and wireless. We pay double.
  68. Jeremy F from Alberta, Canada writes: Since the U.S and Canada are both each others biggest trading partners, I think it's about time we loosen the economic restrictions on each other and form a economic union similer to Europe and peg our currency to the U.S dollar, so that we don't have to worry anymore and U.S prices will match Canadian prices.

    There, done and done...no more complaining.
  69. Dennis sinneD. from Calgary, Canada writes: Steve *** from United States writes: 'I just had an idea. Maybe automakers think that since the Canadian population is one tenth of US (31 million vs. 300 million) they can maintain their profit by raising the price.'

    I heard that argument earlier this week. In my opinion, the car market in North America is a closed system which includes both Canada and USA, therefore, there should be no differential between the two countries. In other words, the two populations are blended.
  70. Gerry Jones from Canada writes: Part of the lawsuit involves collusion between the two subsidiaries.

    In the case of Lexus and Toyota, they've sent out directives telling the US dealers NOT to sell to Canadians.

    My US greenback is a good as anyone elses. It infuriates me when a US Lexus dealer tells me to buy a Canadian car but the Canadian dealer won't return my calls or emails on why the prices are so high in Canada.

    Recently Toyota sent out a note telling Canadians the 'real' value in buying in Canada. None of it made any sense.

    The link to this and other consumer stories can be found on this busy site:

    http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307601

    I recently bought a loaded Subaru. You can buy one today in the US and save over $23,000!
  71. R C from Canada writes: I think the move by Porsche is going to be interesting. Their cars are now priced similarly to the supposed competitors from BMW - Audi - Mercedes. Assuming most buyers would rather have a Porsche, this will put pressure on the luxury car companies to lower prices. Once this hits Lexus and Acura, how can they not lower the price on Toyota and Honda products. It will be interesting to see how strong this effect is, and how long it is going to take.
  72. gordon mcpherson from ottawa, Canada writes: How about a Class Action against the U.S. and Canadian governments i.e. the North American Free Trade Agreement concerning the dollar differential...there has to be an angle theresomewhere for overtaxing us all again...is there no end to the debauchery and greed to the populance?
  73. Laura Taman from Canada writes: Stop complaining. Stop going to the U.S. Just stop buying big ticket items until this major retail rip-off is resolved. A sudden drop in Canadian consumer confidence should get the message to retailers everywhere. And if it doesn't, the downturn in the Canadian economy will devalue the dollar to the point where the prices we are being charged become more reasonable.
  74. Tom Erdman from United States writes: One of the reasons Canadian prices are higher than the US is called economies of scale. The US is the largest single consumer market in the world and has one set of regulations for the entire country, so products destined for the US can be run in huge batches, which is more cost efficient. Canada is a small market with each province having different standards (so I have been told) so it is more expensive to manufacture products for the Canadian market. If they cost more to produce, companies have to charge more for them. In most cases it's not some vast conspiracy, it's just basic economics.
  75. David Sheppard from Canada writes: Let me add one more commodity, other than cars, to this forum. Palm USA sells its products online for less than does its Cdn counterpart. you cannot, absolutely CANNOT buy from the US website. Also, you cannot buy their products from retail stores. If you're lucky, the same item is (not often)available online through Palm Canada, and you'll pay (for example) $85 18 (shipping etc) instead of $60 $7 -- that's a difference of ~50%.
    At least you CAN buy a car in the US.
    not only do I hope that the lawsuit is successful, I hope it spreads to other consumer products.
  76. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: I can't believe Tony Merchant missed this class action opportunity!
  77. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: Tom Erdman from United States writes:'If they cost more to produce, companies have to charge more for them. '

    How do you explain cars manufactured here in Canada and sold at a considerable discount in the U.S.?
  78. Costas Piliotis from Canada writes: Tom Erdman, get a clue. Cars only come from one factory - an F150 built in the US costs the same all around the world where it's sold. There's no economies of scale BS. Dealers are fleecing Canadians, it's a simple as that. Dealership cars aren't owned by the dealership when they're new, they're on consignment from the car maker. Ford Canada and Ford USA buy the same vehicles from the same places.
  79. incognito k from Canada writes: The next excuse for the high price differential will be 'We have to pay for the legal costs of this law suit.' LOL
  80. Sylvia Wilson from Canada writes: I paid $14,800 for a 2006 Ford Focus Stationwagon with less than 6,000 miles on the odometer. Average price for comparable vehicle in Michigan $12,000, comparable mileage. Why is it almost $3,000 more for me to buy one in Ontario compared to Michigan? The car's are identical.

    I thought about it and went with the more expensive car because the service dealer is less than 20 miles from where I live. Yes, I did elect to support a local dealer over one that is miles away. Price isn't everything as long as prices are reasonably close. With the price of gas, it isn't feasible to drive to the States for servicing even if when I get there the fill up costs less. Time means something too--the drive takes more than two hours there and back. It's more convenient to have my vehicle serviced locally. Would my local dealer service it, perhaps, but not as willingly if I buy directly from him. In the end, I chalked $3000 up to building good community relations. Pity that more people don't--Mom and Pop operations provide service that big box stores don't. The big box stores have more selection and the prices are lower, but are the products of the same quality? All things being equal, I often do support the smaller enterprise. Other times, fickleness and impulsivity plays a role. I'm human like everyone else. I suppose it depends on how much one values service and one's community allegiance.
  81. Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: If you buy a car from the states there is a 6.1 per cent duty. Generally, you don't pay state taxes since it is a non-resident purchase. You need a clearance letter from the manufacturer on recalls for the inspection. However, for certain models an authorised dealer letter is sufficent. In the case of Ferrari, you need a manufacturer's recall letter. Ferrari has a special export compliance program where they prep the car for export clearance: ie install daytime running lights, safety inspection etc. which has to be done from an authorised Ferrari dealer. Ferrari then requires you to provide a front and back copy of your driver's license, Certificate of Title, and Bill of Sale. They then check the VIN number against their database for pedigree. If there are no outstanding recalls and fraud issues on the car, they then sign off on the letter, which costs $2000 USD. Now, certain people have created Fraudualent letters using stolen or fake letterheads from the manufacturer to import these cars. This is what happened to Ferraris in the past, so Ferrari has cracked down on this process along with RIV Canada. Also, if your vehicle was found to be later audited to be brought into Canada using a fake recall letter, you will have your car status revoked and be denied insurance and the car has to be exported. A few people have been caught with fake import clearances. Be very careful buying cars without confirmed and genuine documentation. I speak from experience with having bought both my Porsche and Ferrari from the states.
  82. D K from Canada writes: 'Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes:
    How do you explain cars manufactured here in Canada and sold at a considerable discount in the U.S.?'

    American companies like Americans not Canadians. We're just cheap labour. Want to get even, start a Canadian car company.
  83. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Pliny the Elder from Canada writes: Can someone explain the tax angle? Do you have to pay U.S. state taxes AND pst and gst? And if it's not a U.S. or Mexican car (e.g. Volvo), is there a tariff too?

    Some US states such as Montana, Oregon, Alaska, New Hampshire do not have a state sales tax. I know that in Washington, the sales tax will not be charged as you are a non-resident purchaser who will not be registering the vehicle in the state. You have to purchase a trip permit from the DMV for $15. The permit is valid for 3 days.
  84. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: D K from Canada, Honda and Toyota aren't American companies. You may think you own the world, but the world sees it differently.
  85. Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: Also, be aware of subtle import differences that can add to the cost of an imported American vehicle. Mercedes, for example, have a slightly different bumper height for their American and Canadian vehicles. You can import them, but to bring an American Mercedes into Canada legally, you will have to change the front bumpers to Canadian ones to pass the RIV inspection, at a cost of thousands of dollars for that bumper. Make sure that after all the costs are factored in, the savings are worth it.
  86. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Catherine from Toronto from Canada writes: Paul, Bytown

    What about the odometre and spedometre into metric?

    Catherine, many vehicles now have electronic odometers and speedometers in which you can switch from imperial to metric with a simple push of a button. No problem there.

    I believe you meant emissions rather than ommissions? I believe that Ontario and BC are the only jurisdictions in Canada that have mandatory testing.
  87. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: D K from Canada, sorry, mean't THEY may think they own the world.
  88. Sylvia Wilson from Canada writes: Why do people buy brand-new cars? As soon as they're driven off the lot they suffer depreciation! I suppose as long as you're rich you can afford to take a 50% hit. My 2006 Ford Focus with less than 10,000 miles on the odometer was 50% less than being brand new. The previous owner was a lady that trades her cars in every year. Lucky for me that I happened to see it at the local dealership the day it came in for trade. Absolutely confident it had not been in an accident and there would be no problem documenting the ownership of the vehicle.
  89. Michael Slavitch from Canada writes: Key points:

    - The 6.1% duty applies only to vehicles built outside the NAFTA zone. Any
    car built here, in the US or Mexico is exempt no matter the brand.

    - It is easier to buy and ship a car from a no-tax state: NH, TX for example.
    Shipping on a flatbed via a bonded transport firm is the way to go,
    otherwise buy it and drive it with temporary tags.

    - You are better off buying a 'used' car off from a US dealer, even if 'used'
    means driving it around the block. If you want a real savings buy a used
    high end car from Texas: no rust but lots of depreciation.

    - If you want financing, forget it. This is for cash purchases for high-price
    cars. If your range is under $20K either buy new locally or buy a really
    nice 3 year old used car from the states.

    - eBay motors is your friend.
  90. N J from Canada writes: I support the lawsuit.

    Honda sells CRV in Canada for $ 30 K when it is sold for $ 22 K in US. That is paying $ 8 K extra plus $ 1.1 K in extra taxes.
  91. Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: Also, for BC readers, you should buy transport insurance from ICBC. This insurance only covers one specific leg of travel: ie from point A to B. For example to drive it from the dealer where you bought the car to the Canadian dealer for any Canadian compliance work is one policy to buy. To move the car from the Canadian dealer to the Canadian Tire inspection who handle the RIV inspection is one policy, too. From the RIV inspection to the autoplan broker to get your insurance is another policy purchase. So, your $40 cost per tranport policy (assuming it is a cheap car) is now like $120. For my Ferrari it was like $500 each time. Depending on the value of the car and the duration of insurance required, the cost will range from $40 to $500. Do not rely on the tranport company's insurance, that is if you decide to let's say buy a car in Chicago and have a truck transport it to the border. The transport company gets you to sign an incredibly tight contract that it is virtually impossible to make a damage transit claim on the vehicle. At least with ICBC you know the procedure they have in place for claims. Also, ICBC coverage is vastly superior then other temporary transport insurance coverages.
  92. Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: Will the Canadian prices on goods drop or the US prices rise?
  93. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Christopher Kiely makes a good point ... we may see something more of a price convergence since the cap will blow on US prices at some point, it only surprises me that it hasn't officially happened (in the CPI basket of goods) already. Last summer, when the loonie was 83 cents US (?), I remember prices and deals being a better than those now.
  94. Confucious Smith from Canada writes: Sylvia Wilson writes: 'Why do people buy brand-new cars? As soon as they're driven off the lot they suffer depreciation! I suppose as long as you're rich you can afford to take a 50% hit. ..'

    That's a fallacy.
    Find me a 2008 car (any car) that's got 5km on it and selling for 50% of the MSRP. Doesn't exist. Find one selling for 40% off. 30%? 20%? 10%?! Good luck in finding it.
    • Posted 26/09/07 at 12:17 PM EST |